Would you guys put Dave Weckl and Steve Smith in the same catagory as Vinnie?

[FuseU1]

Yeah, FT, you must see DC in clinic to witness the extent of what he can do...in his own right, i feel he is worthy of sitting at the VC/DW/VD etc table...altho i did not necessarily like all that he did on the BRMSC1 - like piledriving thru those jazz tunes like a bull in china shop [SSmith did a much better job - but it HAS been almost 15 yrs. since- good gosh, i blinked my friggin eyes [img]eek.gif[/img] - "time waits for no man [...woman [img]wink.gif[/img] "] ...& some guys complain about all the furious sngl-strk flurries around the kit, he's just so/"too" fast all the time, yada yada... but when he did some clinics back in around the '92-4 area, he did some jaw-dropping polyrhythmic/metric modulation/['dis-']placement stuff...& his grooves w a band are slinky-gutbucket greasy [as Vinnie once put it]...& with a funk or jazz-rock fusion setting he is a ferocious force to contend with...he is a great asset to the world of drumming, IMHO...i have heard a lot of guys in my day who were GREAT sight readers; but put them on the bandstand w/out the sheets & it left something to be desired...u know the old jokes..."How do ya get a guitar player to turn down? Put some sheet music in front of him"...&, "How do u get a keyboardist to turn down? Take the sheet music away from him"... I've actually experienced this in my day [altho by talking like this i am in NO way putting myself in league w VC/DW/DC/VD etc; just stating a few experiences...so, it IS possible for a someone to get that good without reading...sheesh...

However, Vinnie & Weckl can both read the snot outta fly turds / a "quart of ink thrown at a ceiling fan on wall paper"...

I will say this about Smith [besides the fact he once stated that he "freaked" on Weckl's timing & phrasing when he 1st heard him]...i really enjoy a lot of his playing/approach [even tho he sometimes "what some people like to call" - "overplays" ;o) - but, hey?! Who doesn't every now & then?! ;o) ]...i was into him because of hearing him w Jrny...then, i sought out the Vital Info stuff...let me just say that there's a tune on "VI-2" ["Orion"] called "Blade" that is a sh**-kickin old school meets post-mod/contempo jazz/be-bop tune...his solo in "Future Primituve" off same is nice AW...I also liked his playing in that VI tune, the "Perfect Date"[orig studio version]...i think he is at a really high level, but he has intimated that he wishes he had timing "more like Weckl's" [paraphrasing, here]...he has this complaint of he learned the "internal, free-time" way [both prior to, during, & somewhat after Berklee [i was in this category...i wish i had a teacher stress the click - threaten to break my hands if i didn't...I've been tryin to catch up since around '90 [i didnt pick up my 1st pair of sticks until i was almost 18 [img]eek.gif[/img] ] ...whereas the younger players now have been led to understand that YOU MUST BE AN EXPERT AT PLAYING WITH/AROUND THE CLICK - PERIOD...when u hear Vinnie, DW, DC, & VD, u are hearing guys that have done nothing but play w a click or programmed drum machine for 15-20 yrs. ...plus, these guys all started at the av age of 6-8 yrs. ... but i was a SS freak for the longest & i still enjoy his playing...however, i wouldnt go so far as to say he is at VC/DW level drumistically...BUT, ask many of the musicians he's played with [AWA your musician friends who "know their music" as far as listening to what's been out there], & they will tell you that they really like his style/playing...funny how us drummers know what we know, but a lot of other guys aren't necessarily "listening" for the "same things" we are [img]wink.gif[/img] [drumistically]....

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ November 16, 2003 09:39 PM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>

[beat Hit]

Dennis Chambers....

What grabs me with Dennis is NOT his fast single stroke rolls, etc... It's his (as Vinnie said) "gutbucket greasy" feel, elephant ears (as Peter C said). You can tell that Dennis has tons of milage under his belt... Playing with A LOT of "creme de la creme" musicians. He's got a contageous Pocket (makes me wanna sound like him), AWESOME natural TIME.

Dennis is indeed a rare NATURAL... [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]

Go listen to Gary Willis "No Sweat"... There you won't find classic Dennis fast fills, but awesome natural musicality. The 1st track in 3 is killing!!!

[FuseU1]

...4got 2 say..like pete, i also dig the linear...i'm trying to apply some of it more & more, little by liittle...some other commonly "known" players/teachers who use lin. applic's: Chaffee, Morgenstein, Garibaldi, etc...can any1 name their latest whimsy/fav drummer [when it comes to linear playing] AFA recent listening, & a groove to match?....

[Nicky Mas]

Weckl and Smith don't come up to Mangini's speed but I think they express themselves better than Mike in a jazz oriented way. I think Mike is better when it comes to rock playing.